s ask for just cause 1. How long has the employee has been working for the company 2. Disciplinary record 3. Notice of expectations 4. Disparate treatment 5. Adequate investigation 6. Progressive discipline 7. Double Jeopardy 8. Piling on 13 OPENING STATEMENT BY MR. NORTH: 14 The critical incident that forms the 15 basis for the suspension occurred on October 29, 16 2009. On that date, a teacher named Monica Harper, 17 was looking for 18 a student whose first name is Karen. She, you know, 19 the student hadn't shown up to her class. She had 20 checked various places, made calls to try to locate 21 the student because she wasn't marked as an absent 22 student that day. 23 She got a phone call from the library 24 from a staff member there indicating that the student 25 1 was there in the library. Ann Marie Swenson is the 2 librarian. The staff member put Karen on the phone 3 with the teacher, Ms. Harper. 7 So Ms. Harper talked to the student and 8 asked for the librarian to be put on. And Ann Marie 9 Swenson got on the phone at that time. The teacher 10 asked Ms. Swenson, you know, "How long has the 11 student been in the library?" "Did she sign in?" And 12 "what is she doing there?" 13 Ms. Swenson took the phone away from 14 her mouth slightly, had a conversation with the 15 student which is overheard by the teacher on the other 16 end. Basically she asked the student, you know, "How 17 long have you been here?" "Since the beginning of the 18 period." "Did you sign in?" "No." She then says, 19 "Okay, I'll lie." She gets back on the phone with the 20 teacher and said -- after ascertaining the period 21 began at 1:42 says, "She signed in at 1:42." 22 And so, you know, she has this 23 conversation with the student, immediately talking to 24 the teacher again. And so the misconduct here is 26 1 lying to her colleague and including the student in 2 this lie. 3 You know, procedurally she was then 4 interviewed by the principal at some point with her 5 union representation present. And she stated that she 6 didn't say she would lie, she said she would cover for 7 the student. But she admitted that she had the 8 student sign in after the conversation with the 9 teacher and not before, as she had said to the 10 teacher. 11 This is an individual who has two prior 12 suspensions, a three-day and a five-day suspension, 13 which I'll put those records in. And so based on the 14 seriousness of the offense, you know, the breach of 15 trust among the staff and progressive discipline, a 16 20-day suspension was imposed. 17 MR. ARBITRATOR: Okay. Thank you. 18 Attorney Mahoney, would you wish to 19 have an opening statement now or wait until your 20 case? 21 22 you. 23 MS. MAHONEY: I'll do it now. Thank 24 OPENING STATEMENT BY MS. MAHONEY: 27 1 As, I don't think anybody is going to 2 disagree, this case turns on the events of October 29, 3 2009. The employer, as I suggested in one of my 4 motions, has one version, Ms. Swenson has another. 5 The details, Mr. Arbitrator, are very important. This 6 was, from our perspective, and I think the facts will 7 bear this out, a simple misunderstanding or 8 miscommunication. 9 The evidence will not support the 10 employer's allegations that Ms. Swenson lied to a 11 colleague, let alone that she lied to a colleague in 12 front of or involving a student or students. Rather, 13 it will support Ms. Swenson's testimony, 14 Ms. Swenson's position, which is that she did nothing 15 wrong. She didn't lie. She didn't mislead or 16 intentionally mislead Ms. Harper. Ms. Harper 17 misunderstood Ms. Swenson. That's obviously 18 unfortunate, but there was no wrongdoing on the part 19 of Ms. Swenson in the scenario. 20 Further, this disciplinary matter was 21 handled without due process. 28 5 In addition, other due process issues 6 arise. The investigation, in addition to the unlawful 7 investigative interview, which took place on November 8 5th, 2009 by the way, the employer sent a written 9 follow-up to the interview to Ms. Swenson. 10 Ms. Swenson responded to the follow-up seeking to 11 correct an important fact that the investigator had 12 gotten wrong. Then there was nothing. 13 So investigative interview November 5, 14 written follow-up from the investigator, who is 15 Mr. Hollis, who is here today. He is the building 16 principal. My client, Ms. Swenson responded to him 17 in a timely fashion seeking to correct what she saw as 18 a material misstatement in his rendition. That 19 response was dated November 24th. 20 In Mr. Hollis's November 16th follow- 21 up, he had said, you know, one thing, he forbade her 22 from speaking to Ms. Harper until his investigation 23 was complete. He never got back to her, never told 24 Ms. Swenson, my investigation is complete. Never 29 1 notified her or her union of any follow-up, any 2 conclusion. And based on the meeting that 3 Ms. Swenson had had on the 5th of November and the 4 written follow-up that took place shortly thereafter, 5 she had every reason to believe that the matter was 6 behind her, that it had been resolved, that she had 7 explained the situation to the satisfaction of the 8 employer and she moved on. Four and a half months 9 later, she got a notice of intent to suspend from the 10 superintendent of schools. That's a due process 11 problem. 31 1 There is absolutely no 2 reason that we've been given or that we can see that 3 the employer waited four and a half months to let 4 Ms. Swenson know that this was indeed, going to be an 5 issue for her. And in that time, memories faded. Her 6 memory faded. The memory of other percipient 7 witnesses, Mr. Arbitrator, faded. And here we are. 8 So in short, the evidence both regarding 9 the events of October 29, 2009 such as it is, such as 10 it's been preserved, as well as the evidence 11 concerning due process or the lack thereof, we 12 respectfully submit support a finding that this 13 discipline lacked just cause, was a violation of the 14 statute, was otherwise improper and should be 15 reversed. 16 Thank you. 17 MR. ARBITRATOR: Thank you. 18 MR. NORTH: First witness? 19 MR. ARBITRATOR: First witness, please. 20 Would you like the witnesses sworn? 21 MR. NORTH: Yes. 22 MS. MAHONEY: Yes, please. 23 MR. ARBITRATOR: If there is anyone, I 32 1 guess on both sides -2 MR. NORTH: Do you want me to bring 3 them in and have them sworn in at the same time? 4 MR. ARBITRATOR: Well, why don't we just go 5 with the two that are here and as they come in I can 6 swear them in. 7 MR. NORTH: Okay. The first witness is 8 Ms. Harper. 9 (Ms. Harper enters the room.) 10 (Witnesses sworn.) 11 MR. ARBITRATOR: Having been sworn in, 12 could you please state your name. 13 THE WITNESS: Monica Harper. 14 15 ************ 16 MONICA HARPER 17 ************ 18 19 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. NORTH: 20 Q. And Ms. Harper, is your previous last name 21 Harper? 22 A. Correct, yes. 23 Q. And how are you employed? 24 A. I am a biology and biotechnology teacher at 33 1 Attleboro. 2 Q. And for how long have you been employed in 3 that capacity? 4 A. This is my third year. 5 Q. And do you have previous experience before 6 Attleboro? 7 A. I do. 8 Q. What is that? 9 A. I taught at Lincoln for a maternity 10 leave that was about two months long. I was a TA at a 11 program at UMass. And I 12 worked summers at a school in Providence as a teacher's aide. 14 Q. And what's your educational background? 15 A. I've got a bachelor's in science in biology 16 and biotechnology from WPI in Worcester and I have a 17 master's in education from UMass. 18 Q. And at the present time, what are your 19 duties at Attleboro? 20 A. I teach freshmen biology one week and then 21 the other week I teach freshmen biotechnology. 22 Q. And do you recall being involved in a 23 situation involving a student named Karen on October 24 29, 2009? 34 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And can you tell the arbitrator what 3 happened that day? 4 A. Yes. That day was a quiz day. When 5 Karen's class came in, Karen was not with her 6 class. I called down to the nurse's office. She 7 wasn't at the nurse. I called down to the main 8 office, she hadn't been dismissed. So I had Nancy 9 C. do an all-call, page her throughout the school. 10 After that I received a phone call from Kathy Lanier 11 in the library and she said Karen was up there. 12 Q. Who is Kathy Lanier? 13 A. Kathy Lanier works in the library. I'm not 14 sure what her title is. She might be like a librarian 15 assistant, I'm not sure. 16 Q. Okay. So what happened when you talked to 17 Kathy Lanier? 18 A. Kathy said that Karen was there. And I 19 asked to speak to Karen. Karen came on the phone. 20 I asked her what she was doing there, because she 21 hadn't reported to class. I wanted to know why she 22 was in the library. And she said that she was there 23 dealing with a personal issue. 24 Q. Um-hum. What happened then? 35 1 A. So then I asked Karen if I could talk to 2 the librarian. And this time it was Ann Marie 3 Swenson on the phone. And I asked her, what was 4 Karen doing there, you know, did she see her come 5 in. You know, I just wanted to know if Karen was 6 really at the library the whole time. 7 Q. What happened then? 8 A. And then, you know, she said, "I'll ask 9 her" and went to talk to Karen. And I could still 10 hear the conversation on the phone. She asked Karen 11 if she signed in. And Karen said "no." And then she 12 said, "All right. Well, I'll lie. How long do you 13 think you've been here?" And Karen said, "Since the 14 beginning of the period." And then, um, you know, 15 they talked about when the period began. And you 16 know, 1:42 was the beginning of that period, or 1:40. 17 I think the bell rings for the previous one at 1:36 or 18 something like that. 19 And Ann Marie came back on the phone and said 20 "She signed in at 1:42." You know, "I saw her come 21 in. She's been here the whole time." And I said, 22 "You know, I heard that. I heard that conversation." 23 And her response to me was, "well, that's why I'm 24 always telling the kids, you've got to sign in. 36 1 You've got to sign in when you come into the 2 library." And then, you know, we decided that Karen 3 was going to stay up there because she was taking her 4 quiz in the library. She's in a small group testing 5 for her IEP, special ed. So she was taking her test 6 up there anyways. So, you know, she stayed up there. 7 I think Ann Marie asked me if the rest of my class was 8 coming up, and I said "no" and then we said our good9 byes. 10 Q. Okay. So what happened after that 11 conversation at the end of the day? 12 A. Well, at the time I was still a second-year 13 teacher so I had a mentor. So I went to ask my mentor 14 what I should do. And my mentor suggested that I 15 write a letter and that the appropriate person to send 16 it to would be Shirley Lepri, our dean of 17 academics. 18 Q. And did you write such a letter? 19 A. I did, that afternoon. 20 Q. And when did you send the letter or when 21 did you deliver the letter? 22 A. I sent it the next day. 23 Q. I'm going to show you what I'd like to -- 24 I'm going to first show you a letter dated October 37 1 30th and mark that District 1 for identification. Do 2 you recognize that? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. What is that? 5 A. This is the letter I sent. This is an 6 e-mail to Shirley Lepri. 7 MR. NORTH: I'd like to offer that as 8 District 1. 9 MS. MAHONEY: Objection. 10 MR. ARBITRATOR: What is the objection? 11 MS. MAHONEY: Well, that we're seeing 12 it for the first time today. That it's not as it was 13 conveyed to Ms. Lepri. It's not signed. How many 14 objections do I need? 15 MR. ARBITRATOR: Well, you -- as you want 16 to put forward. But I'm going to allow it into 17 evidence. 18 19 20 MR. NORTH: All right. Q. Now -MR. ARBITRATOR: Excuse me. So this will 21 be District 1. 22 MR. NORTH: District 1. 23 (District Exhibit 1 marked.) 24 Q. Now why was the information that you were 38 1 trying to get from Ms. Swenson important? 2 A. Karen -- this wasn't the first time that 3 Karen didn't report to class at the beginning of 4 class. She kind of had a history of dealing with 5 these personal issues. And it was really important to 6 me that I held Karen accountable for these things, 7 for not reporting to class on time. And so what I 8 really wanted to know was, you know, if Karen was 9 actually in the library or was she not in the library, 10 had she maybe left school grounds and was lying to 11 me. I wanted to know where Karen was. 12 Q. What about the issue whether Karen had 13 signed into the library, was that something you wanted 14 to know? 15 A. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I did want to know 16 if she had signed in. You know, she wasn't supposed 17 to be in the library, so -- but yeah. 18 Q. Was the situation upsetting to you? 19 A. It was. 20 Q. Why? 21 A. Because I always felt that us staff were 22 supposed to be kind of on the same side trying to help 23 our students be responsible and accountable for their 24 actions. 39 1 Q. Do you have a vivid memory of these events? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. Why? 4 A. Because it was so shocking to me as a 5 second year teacher to hear those words over the 6 phone. 7 Q. Which words? 8 A. The words "I'll lie," lying for a student. 9 Q. Prior to this incident, had you had any 10 conflicts with Ann Marie Swenson? 11 12 A. Not one, no. MR. NORTH: I have no further 13 questions. 14 MR. ARBITRATOR: Attorney Mahoney. 15 MS. MAHONEY: Well, since I didn't take 16 any time before to review this letter, I'll need to 17 take some time now. 18 MR. ARBITRATOR: Sure. Understood. 19 (Off the record.) 20 MR. ARBITRATOR: Back on the record. 21 22 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. MAHONEY: 23 Q. Good morning. My name is Sheilah 24 Mahoney. I'm here on behalf of Ann Marie Swenson. 40 1 I'm her lawyer. And I'm going to be asking you some 2 questions. Okay? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Your responses need to be verbal because 5 the stenographer can't get a nod or a shaking of the 6 head. Okay? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Thank you. I think I heard you testify 9 earlier that you just wanted to know if Karen was 10 really at the library, is that correct? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. Okay. And you were satisfied then that she 13 was at the library? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That was the purpose of your call, wasn't 16 it? 17 A. It was the -- well, I was called. 18 Q. Well, the purpose of the conversation, if 19 you will, was to ascertain whether Karen was really 20 in the library, is that right? 21 A. Right. 22 Q. Okay. I think that's what you testified to 23 when Mr. North was asking you questions, right? 24 A. Um-hum. 41 1 Q. Do you remember that? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And what time was this conversation on the 4 telephone? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. Don't know the time. Is that right? 7 A. That's correct. It would have been after 8 1:42. 9 Q. Okay. That's what time the period starts, 10 1:42, is that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And was it 5th period, is that what it's 13 called? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. But you didn't make a note of the 16 time anywhere at the time of this conversation. And 17 you don't have any recollection as to what time it 18 was, is that correct? 19 A. Not an exact time, no. 20 Q. All you know is that it was after 1:42, 21 because it was after the start of the period, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. And is it your testimony that you 24 called, I'm sorry, that you asked Ms. Swenson what 42 1 was going on? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. That's what you said, "What's going on?" 4 Were those your words? 5 A. As I recollect them, yes. 6 Q. Okay. And you asked what Karen was doing 7 in the library, is that right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Because you thought Ms. Swenson would know 10 what she was doing in the library, is that why you 11 asked Ms. Swenson? 12 A. I don't know. I don't know if Ms. Swenson 13 knew. 14 Q. Did you ask Karen what she was doing in 15 the library? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. Okay. And what did she tell you? 18 A. She was dealing with a personal issue. 19 Q. Okay. And it's true that you had a plan 20 for her to be in the library that day, is that right? 21 A. Correct, yes. 22 Q. So that's not in dispute. She was -- it 23 was appropriate for her to be in the library that day, 24 right? 43 1 A. That day, but not at that time. 2 Q. At a different -- during a different 3 period? 4 A. During that period. The students report to 5 class first. 6 Q. Okay. And so your issue with her was that 7 she hadn't reported to class first, is that right? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. Would Karen have known before the period 10 started that your plan was to send her to the library? 11 A. I don't know if she remembered there was a 12 quiz or not. 13 Q. But if she did, then she would have known 14 that she was to report to the library and be quizzed 15 and be part of a group that was being taught by Donna 16 Thomas, is that right? 17 A. They report to class first. 18 Q. That's not my question. My question is, if 19 she had remembered that there was a quiz, she would 20 have known that she was to take the quiz in the 21 library under the supervision of Donna Thomas, is 22 that right? 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. And I think you testified that you had had 44 1 issues with Karen before regarding whether or not she 2 reported to class first before she went elsewhere, is 3 that the issue you'd had with her before? 4 A. Not necessarily elsewhere, just reporting 5 to class on time at all. 6 Q. So had this ever -- had the issue of 7 reporting to the library without reporting to class 8 first ever come up with Karen before that you're 9 aware of? 10 A. Not that I'm aware of. Not the library. 11 Q. So you asked Ms. Swenson a general 12 question about what was going on, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And what was Ms. Swenson's answer to that 15 question? 16 A. She said to hold on, she was going to ask 17 Karen. 18 Q. And you didn't say, "Well, no. I've 19 already asked Karen"? 20 A. Well, I didn't know if Karen was telling 21 the truth or not. 22 Q. Okay. Well, but she said "Hang on. I'm 23 going to ask Karen." Did you actually expect that 24 Karen was going to give Ms. Swenson a different 45 1 answer than she gave to you? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Okay. Um, so she asked Karen or she did 4 what, what did she do? 5 A. What I heard on my end was Ann Marie saying 6 to Karen, "Did you sign in to the library? When you 7 came in, did you sign in?" 8 Q. Okay. So -- this is important, so I want 9 to make sure I have the sequence right and details 10 correct. You asked her "What was going on," right? 11 Ms. Swenson, that is, is that right? 12 A. (Nods head.) 13 Q. Yes? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Sorry. The stenographer really cannot get 16 the nodding. Okay. 17 A. I'm just thinking, sorry. 18 Q. Okay. You asked Ms. Swenson what was 19 going on, is that right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. You also, your letter also indicates 22 you asked her what Karen was doing in the library and 23 how long she had been there. Did you ask Ms. Swenson 24 those three questions in rapid succession or did you 46 1 ask her a question and expect her to get you answers 2 to them one at a time? 3 A. I did not ask them one at a time. It was 4 more like the rapid fire. 5 Q. Okay. And Ms. Swenson, as far as you 6 know, moved away from -- moved the phone away from her 7 mouth, is that right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And you weren't there, were you? 10 A. I was not. 11 Q. Were you calling from a phone that had a 12 view of Ms. Swenson's office? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Isn't it true, Ms. Harper, that you 15 don't know what Ms. Swenson did with the phone? 16 A. That is true. 17 Q. Okay. So to say that she moved the phone 18 away from her mouth is to say something that you don't 19 know with any certainty, isn't that right? 20 A. That's true. 21 Q. And you've testified that you believe you 22 heard her talking to Karen, is that right? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And you believe that you heard Ms. Swenson 47 1 say "I'll lie" is that right? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. And in fact, that is the only words, those 4 are the only words in your letter of October 30th that 5 are in quotes, isn't that right? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. So you haven't bothered to quote yourself 8 accurately, right? 9 A. No. This is kind of more of a summary. 10 No. 11 Q. But you didn't think it was important to 12 accurately capture exactly what you said to 13 Ms. Swenson, is that right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. But you have put in quotes the words "I'll 16 lie," is that right? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. Even though those words were not said into 19 the phone receiver, right? 20 A. I heard them, but you're right, they 21 weren't said directly into the receiver. 22 Q. And you understood that you were calling an 23 office, right? 24 A. I'm not sure which phone was picked up. 48 1 Q. Okay. But you understood that there may be 2 other people around, right? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. And you heard the words "I'll lie"? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And believed that Ann Marie Swenson said 7 them, is that right? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And then you heard Ann Marie say something 10 else. What was that? 11 A. "How long do you think you've been here?" 12 Q. Is that exactly what she said? 13 A. In my memory, yes. 14 Q. Okay. But you didn't put anything else 15 that Ms. Swenson said in quotes? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. So let's back up. In your memory, 18 Ms. Harper, why don't you tell us everything you 19 remember in chronological order about what you said 20 and what Ms. Swenson said during this conversation. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Go ahead. 23 A. So Ann Marie came on the phone. 24 Q. Did she identify herself? 49 1 A. I don't remember. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. And I asked her a series of questions about 4 Karen's activities and what was going on, how long 5 had Karen been there, had she seen her in there? 6 Q. Okay. So you're asking rapid fire 7 questions without giving her an opportunity to 8 respond. I think that's what you testified to 9 earlier, right? 10 A. In my memory, yes. 11 Q. So, I'm sorry, because I don't write that 12 fast. You said first what? 13 A. To my memory, I believe I asked, you know, 14 what was going on? Had she seen her? How long had 15 she been there? 16 Q. Not giving Ms. Swenson an opportunity to 17 respond in between each question, which question did 18 you expect her to respond to, or did you expect her to 19 respond to all of them? 20 MR. NORTH: I'm going to object to 21 that. It's argumentative. Calls for speculation. 22 It's asking her to get into the head of Ms. Swenson. 23 MR. ARBITRATOR: Can you just explain that 24 further? 50 1 MR. NORTH: It's just -- it's asking 2 her what, you know, what Ms. Swenson -- what question 3 Ms. Swenson thought she should answer, essentially, 4 asking her to speculate about that. 5 MS. MAHONEY: Let me clarify the 6 question. 7 MR. ARBITRATOR: Please do. 8 Q. Did you expect her to respond to the 9 question, "What's going on?" 10 A. Yes. In reference to Karen being in the 11 library, yes. 12 Q. Did you think that that question was clear? 13 A. I thought, you know, with what was going 14 on, in context, it was clear. 15 Q. Okay. And then did you get an answer from 16 Ms. Swenson to any of the three questions that you 17 have recounted here? 18 A. The answer I received was, you know, "I 19 don't know. Hold on." 20 Q. Okay. "I don't know. Hold on." Is that 21 exactly what she said? 22 A. In my memory as it stands today, yes. 23 Q. And then what happened? 24 A. That's when I began to hear the quieter 51 1 conversation of who I believed was Ann Marie Swenson 2 and Karen. 3 Q. How long did that conversation last? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. No memory? 6 A. It was a short conversation. I didn't have 7 a stopwatch. 8 Q. What did the conversation consist of? 9 A. I heard what I believed to be Ann Marie 10 Swenson saying to Karen, "Okay. How long do you 11 think you've been in here" -- I'm sorry. She asked 12 first if she had signed in. I apologize. And Karen 13 said. "No." And then she asked, "Well, how long do 14 you think you've been in here? I'll lie." 15 Q. Okay. Hang on. This is important. How 16 long have you -- she asked first, have you signed in? 17 A. "Did you sign in?" 18 Q. And did Karen respond? 19 A. Karen said "no." 20 Q. Then what? 21 A. Then Ann Marie said, "I'll lie. How long 22 do you think you've been here?" 23 Q. Isn't it more accurate to say, the person 24 you believed was Ann Marie Swenson said "I'll lie"? 52 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then what? 3 A. Ann Marie and Karen spoke about when the 4 period began. I don't remember what their exact words 5 were. They must have been looking at a bell schedule 6 or something. I don't remember what the exact words 7 were around that conversation. 8 Q. So they had a separate conversation that 9 you can't recall with any detail around the bell 10 schedule? 11 A. Well, figuring out when the period began, 12 because Karen had said she had been there since the 13 beginning of the period. I'm sorry. 14 Q. Okay. So when did Karen say, "I've been 15 here since the beginning of the period"? 16 A. That was her response to Ann Marie asking 17 her, "How long do you think you've been here?" 18 Q. And she said "I've been here since the 19 beginning of the period"? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. Okay. And then is that when the 22 conversation that you think you heard discussing bell 23 schedules took place? 24 A. Right. When the period began. 53 1 Q. And can you recall any exact words there or 2 you're just not clear on what was exactly said there? 3 A. You know, I think Ann Marie asked, "What 4 time did the period start?" And, you know, they 5 agreed that it was 1:42 was the time the period 6 started. 7 Q. Then what? 8 A. Ann Marie came back on the phone and told 9 me she signed in at 1:42. She's been at the library 10 the whole time. She saw her come in. 11 Q. Okay. "She signed in at 1:42. She's been 12 in the library the whole time." What else? 13 A. "I saw her come in." 14 Q. "I saw her come in." Okay. Then what did 15 you say? 16 A. I told her that I had heard the discussion. 17 Q. So, your exact words? 18 A. I said "Ann Marie, I heard that. I heard 19 the discussion." 20 Q. And her response? 21 A. She said, "Well, that's why I'm always 22 telling students they've got to sign in. They've got 23 to sign in." 24 Q. Did you say, "I heard you say 'I'll lie'"? 54 1 A. I did not. 2 Q. Did you pursue that any further in your 3 conversation with Ms. Swenson that day? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you say "I'm upset"? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did you say "I feel disrespected"? 8 A. Not to Ann Marie, no. 9 Q. You, in fact, continued your conversation 10 with her, didn't you? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Um-hum. Okay. So you dropped this issue 13 that you say you have with Ms. Swenson or what you 14 believe she said and took up another matter in your 15 conversation with Ms. Swenson, is that right? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And what was that? 18 A. Well, I told her that Karen would stay up 19 there in the library, because by this time, you know, 20 it was time to take the quiz, so it was fine that she 21 was up there already. She didn't have to come back 22 down. Ann Marie asked if the rest of my class was 23 coming up, I said "no." Then we said our good-byes. 24 Q. So at no point during that conversation did 55 1 you confront her and tell her that you had heard her 2 or thought you heard her saying "I'll lie"? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you didn't indicate any upset during 5 your conversation with her? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. When did the conversation end? 8 A. I don't recall a specific time on the 9 clock. 10 Q. You don't know what time it was when it 11 ended, do you? 12 A. No, I don't recall the time. 13 Q. Where were you when you were having this 14 conversation? 15 A. In my classroom in front of 24 students. 16 Q. Let's see. When you were talking with 17 Ms. Swenson, did you reference Karen by name? 18 A. I don't remember if I used Karen's name. 19 Q. When you, let's see. When you asked to 20 speak to Karen, were you still on the phone in front 21 of 24 students? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. And did you ask to speak to Karen 24 by name? 56 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And you asked Ms. Swenson "What's going 3 on?" You issued your rapid fire questions to 4 Ms. Swenson while you were on the phone in front of 5 24 students? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did you feel disrespected by the fact that 8 Karen hadn't shown up in your classroom? 9 10 A. Yeah. Disrespect to me and her class. Q. Do you have some level of responsibility 11 for the students who are supposed to be in your 12 classroom at a given time? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So you felt responsible for Karen, right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Are you responsible for Karen before the 17 bell rings for the start of that period? 18 A. No. I mean, as one of her general teachers 19 I will always feel responsible for her at school, but 20 not specifically. 21 Q. Not responsible for her whereabouts, right? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. You may be responsible generally for her 24 safety and well-being, right? 57 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. But you didn't feel responsibility for her 3 whereabouts until 1:42, is that right? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. Is it your testimony that you didn't ask -- 6 forgive me, this is all new to me here, that you 7 didn't ask what time she had signed in? 8 A. That's correct. I didn't ask what time she 9 had signed in. 10 Q. You weren't interested in that? 11 A. She wasn't supposed to be in the library. 12 I wouldn't have thought she had signed in. 13 Q. Do you know what the sign-in policy for the 14 library is? 15 A. I don't know it verbatim, no. 16 Q. Do you have any understanding of it? 17 A. My understanding is that when students come 18 up to use the library, if they're not with a class, 19 they're signing in. 20 Q. And so is it your understanding that when 21 Karen is in the library with Ms. Thomas she doesn't 22 need to sign in? 23 A. I don't know actually. I've never been 24 there for that. 58 1 Q. But it's your understanding that if a 2 student is in the library alone or without a teacher, 3 they don't -- they do have to sign in. But if they're 4 there with their teacher, they don't have to sign in, 5 is that your understanding? 6 A. When I take a class to the library, the 7 entire class does not sign in. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. And that's the only sign-in knowledge I 10 really have. 11 Q. I think you just testified that she wasn't 12 supposed to be in the library so you would not expect 13 her to sign in? 14 A. Right. 15 Q. Is that right? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. But you don't know whether a student 18 reporting to the library in the absence of their 19 teacher and the rest of their class is supposed to 20 sign in or not? 21 A. Can you say that again? 22 Q. You don't know whether a student in 23 Karen's shoes, she's in the library, she doesn't have 24 her teacher, you, with her. She is not with her 59 1 class. You don't know whether she was required to 2 sign in or not, is that right? 3 A. I thought that the sign-in/sign-out was a 4 way to track students in the library. So no, I don't 5 know. But I assume that if Karen was supposed to be 6 there, she would have signed in. But she wasn't, so I 7 don't know why she would have tracked herself into the 8 library if she wasn't supposed to be there. 9 Q. So -- 10 A. That's all I meant by that. 11 Q. So Karen was supposed to be in the library 12 at some point that period, was she not? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And would you have expected her to sign in 15 upon reporting to the library under those 16 circumstances? 17 A. When the children go up to the library to 18 take a test, they have a pass. I don't know if they 19 sign in when they get there with Mrs. Thomas. 20 Q. You never looked into it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. But you think the signing in and signing 23 out is intended for what purpose? 24 A. I've always thought it had to do with 60 1 tracking the students, knowing when they were in the 2 library, when they weren't. I don't know though. 3 Q. What would the purpose be of tracking the 4 students as you understand it? 5 A. Well, we always like to know where the 6 students are. I honestly don't know. The only time 7 I'm in the library is with a class. 8 Q. Okay. Do you know whether Karen did, in 9 fact, sign in on the day in question? 10 A. I don't. What I heard on the phone is that 11 she said "no" to Ann Marie. Who I thought was Karen 12 saying "no" to who I thought was Ann Marie. 13 MS. MAHONEY: I don't have anything 14 further at this time. Thank you. 15 MR. ARBITRATOR: Okay. Any redirect? 16 MR. NORTH: No. All set. 17 MR. ARBITRATOR: Okay. You're excused. 18 MR. NORTH: Can we just take a quick 19 break? 20 MR. ARBITRATOR: Of course you can. 21 (Brief recess.) 22 MR. ARBITRATOR: Okay. We're back on the 23 record. The parties have asked that all witnesses be 24 sworn, so I'd ask that you raise your right hand. 61 1 (MARK HOLLIS, sworn.) 2 MR. ARBITRATOR: Could you state your name 3 for the record, please. 4 THE WITNESS: Mark Hollis. Do you want 5 a middle name? 6 MR. ARBITRATOR: No, that's fine. Okay. 7 MR. NORTH: All right. 8 9 ************ 10 MARK HOLLIS 11 ************ 12 13 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. NORTH: 14 Q. Mr. Hollis, how are you employed, sir? 15 A. I'm currently the principal at Attleboro. 16 Q. And for how long have you been in that 17 role? 18 A. Coming up on two years. December 19th of 19 '08. 20 Q. And prior to being principal at Attleboro 21 what roles did you fill? 22 A. I was a, working backwards, director of 23 curriculum and student assessment for about 5 years. 62 1 Prior to that, I was a health and physical education 2 teacher. 3 Q. And all told, how long have you been 4 employed at Attleboro? 5 A. Since 1992. In other various roles, also. 6 Q. And what is your educational background? 7 A. I hold a bachelor's degree from Bridgewater 8 State College in Massachusetts. That's in physical 9 education and health. And a master's degree in 10 educational leadership from Framingham State, now 11 University, was Framingham State College. 12 Q. And what was your -- did you have any 13 involvement in an incident in October of 2009 14 regarding Ann Marie Swenson? 15 A. In the actual incident or the -- 16 Q. Or in any aspect of it? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. And when did you become aware of it or how 19 did you became aware of it? 20 A. Actually, the academic director, Shirley 21 Lepri, came to me approximately the next day, 22 October 30th or so, and informed me that there was an 23 incident with one of the classroom teachers, Monica 24 Harper and the librarian, Ann Marie 63 1 Swenson. And she had received a letter from Monica 2 to Shirley stating that there was an incident and that 3 she wanted me to be aware of it. 4 Q. Okay. And what happened next? 5 A. Well, I read the letter and was informed 6 that there was obviously an issue going on between the 7 two. And I informed Shirley that I'd be arranging a 8 meeting and I would meet with Ann Marie to discuss the 9 matter. 10 Q. Okay. I'm just going to show you District 11 Exhibit 1. Is that the letter that you're referring 12 to? 13 A. Yes, it is. 14 Q. And so what did you do to arrange that 15 meeting? 16 A. I believe I had my secretary contact Ann 17 Marie, inform her that we were going to have a meeting 18 to discuss the incident, inform her that she had a 19 right to representation and that I was going to invite 20 David Stock, the union president, to the 21 meeting. 22 Q. And -- 23 A. And also I had Shirley Lepri, I told her 24 I'd like her to be there as a witness to take notes as 64 1 an administrator, also. 2 Q. And who is Shirley Lepri? 3 A. She's the director of academic programs at 4 Attleboro. She acts as a, like an assistant principal. 5 Q. So did you end up having that meeting? 6 A. Yes, we did. 7 Q. What happened at the meeting? Actually, 8 before you tell me that, who was present at the 9 meeting? 10 A. Present at that meeting, Shirley Lepri, 11 Ann Marie Swenson, Dave Stock and myself. It 12 took place in my office. 13 Q. Okay. What was Dave Stock there for? 14 A. Dave Stock is the Union President of 15 the local teacher's union in Attleboro and to act as a 16 representative on behalf of Ann Marie. 17 Q. Okay. So what did you do at the meeting? 18 A. Reviewed that letter that was written by 19 Monica to Shirley. Then I asked some questions about 20 whether the letter was accurate. 21 Q. Did you provide a copy of the letter? 22 A. To be honest, I don't recall. 23 Q. And then what was the discussion after 24 that? 65 1 A. Basically on how things proceeded. I know 2 there are some specific things in there about a phone 3 conversation and whether or not she had said the 4 things that Monica had written. Monica had written in 5 the letter that she overheard a conversation about the 6 student, and that Ann Marie would lie. And so I asked 7 her about that. And she said, I can remember she said 8 something along the lines of, "It's been a few days. 9 I don't recall saying that. I said 'I would cover for 10 you,' to the student." 11 Q. So that was what Ann Marie reported saying 12 to the student? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. What about on the question of whether the 15 student had signed in prior to her speaking to 16 Ms. Harper at the time? 17 A. She said something to the effect of, "I 18 didn't say that she signed in. I said that, you know, 19 she was there" or something, something like that. But 20 she had not had the student sign in but reported to 21 Monica that she had signed in already. 22 Q. All right. Did you write a letter to 23 Ms. Swenson to document that meeting? 24 A. I did, that afternoon. And I believe she 66 1 got it the following day. So it would have been the 2 beginning of November, I don't remember the exact 3 date, the 4th, the 5th, something like that. It was 4 around the beginning of November. 5 Q. What was around the beginning of November, 6 the meeting? 7 A. The meeting and the letter. 8 Q. All right. I'm going to show you what I've 9 marked as District Exhibit 2. It's a letter dated 10 November 16th. And do you recognize this? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What is it? 13 A. It's the letter that I wrote documenting, 14 the meeting was on the 5th of November, the beginning 15 of November. And this letter is actually dated the 16 16th. 17 Q. Okay. Did you write this letter? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. And that is your signature at the bottom? 20 A. Yes, it is. 21 Q. And in the letter you make some statements 22 of what occurred at the meeting. Is this -- was this 23 a true and accurate representation of your 24 recollection of the meeting at the time you wrote the 67 1 letter? 2 A. Yes, it is. I wrote the letter actually 3 that afternoon after we met. 4 MR. NORTH: I'd like to offer this as 5 District 2. 6 MR. ARBITRATOR: Any objections? 7 MS. MAHONEY: No. No objection. 8 MR. ARBITRATOR: So this is District 2. 9 (District Exhibit 2 marked.) 10 Q. All right. Now at the bottom of the letter 11 I note that it says, "If you disagree with my 12 characterization of our meeting, please let me know." 13 Do you see where it says that? 14 A. Yes, I do. 15 Q. And did you receive any response to that 16 from Ms. Swenson? 17 A. Yes, I did. I received a short note from 18 her, I would say, verifying that she did receive my 19 letter and that there was one particular, I don't 20 remember the exact date of her response, but -21 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you a memo dated 22 November 24, 2009. 23 24 A. Um-hum. Looks familiar. MR. NORTH: I'd like to mark that as 68 1 District 3. 2 Q. Is that the -- 3 MS. MAHONEY: Can we have a copy? 4 MR. NORTH: Sorry. (Hands over 5 document.) 6 Q. Is that the letter you received back from 7 Ms. Swenson? 8 A. Yes, it is. 9 MR. NORTH: I'd like to offer D3. 10 MS. MAHONEY: No objection. 11 MR. ARBITRATOR: Entered as D3. 12 (District Exhibit 3 marked.) 13 Q. So after this, what did you do? 14 A. Well, after having the meeting with Ann 15 Marie and Dave and Shirley and after receiving this, I 16 then went to Superintendent Mary Jo Norton to have 17 discussion on the employee and the situation. 18 Q. Okay. Let me -- before we get to that, let 19 me ask you about the student. Is the student involved 20 one that you were familiar with? 21 A. Yes, very much so. 22 Q. And was there anything concerning about 23 this incident because of who the student was? 24 A. Well, she's a special ed student. She was 69 1 a high risk student in the fact that she missed a lot 2 of school. I don't know if we can get into details. 3 If you want me to -4 Q. I don't want to necessarily put details 5 about the student, per se, in the record. But just in 6 general, why, relative to the incident, why was this 7 incident of concern because of the -- due to who the 8 student was? 9 A. She had a history of not being where she 10 was supposed to be. She was kind of a hallway roamer 11 type thing. She was, as far as student 12 accountability, she was not a model at all. She was 13 -- people were constantly having to check up on her, 14 where her whereabouts were in the building, because 15 she was a high-risk student. 16 Q. All right. So procedurally, what happened 17 next with regard to the issue with Ann Marie Swenson? 18 A. Well, after a conversation with the 19 superintendent, it was decided that at that point she 20 would take the case over and follow through with any 21 disciplinary action that was going to take place. 22 23 Q. Okay. MR. NORTH: All right. No further 24 questions. 70 1 MR. ARBITRATOR: Okay. Any cross- 2 examination? 3 MS. MAHONEY: Yes, thanks. 4 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. MAHONEY: 6 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hollis. My name is 7 Sheilah Mahoney and I'm Ann Marie Swenson's 8 attorney. I'll be asking you a few questions. 9 10 A. Okay. Q. Just to be clear, you were not, as we 11 understand it, any kind of a percipient witness to the 12 events of October 29th, 2009, is that right? 13 A. By that you mean in the library when this 14 event took place? 15 Q. By that I mean you didn't see, hear or use 16 any of your other senses to perceive what took place 17 in the library on October 29th, 2009? 18 A. I would say that's correct. 19 Q. And isn't it true, Mr. Hollis, that in 20 summoning Ms. Swenson to your, to the meeting that 21 you had concerning this matter, you did not notify her 22 as to what the meeting was going to be about, isn't 23 that true? 24 A. I don't recall. I believe I had my 71 1 secretary contact her, as I do with -- or her with 2 other employees and say I would like to meet. I don't 3 recall the specifics, no. 4 Q. So you don't have any recollection of 5 instructing your secretary to tell Ms. Swenson that 6 it involved her conversation with Monica Harper on 7 October 29th, 2009, do you? 8 A. I don't believe it was that specific, no. 9 Q. Did it -- was it specific at all? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 Q. Okay. Would it be common practice for you 12 to ask your secretary to request somebody's presence 13 in your office with union representation and tell the 14 individual what the meeting was about? 15 A. She would say, "Mr. Hollis wants to meet 16 with you at 2:45 this afternoon and you have the right 17 to representation. He is going to invite the union 18 president, Mr. Stock. 19 Q. So that would be a common, the common 20 content of -- the typical content of a notice? 21 A. I would say so. 22 Q. And do you have any reason to believe that 23 the notice in this instance was any different? 24 A. I would say no. She's a very conscientious 72 1 and consistent person. 2 Q. You're referring to your secretary? 3 A. (Nods.) 4 Q. Is that a yes? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And was the notice that your secretary 7 conveyed on your behalf in writing? 8 A. I don't believe so. I believe it was a 9 phone conversation directly with Ms. Swenson. 10 Q. When was it given? 11 A. I don't recall the date. 12 Q. When was the meeting? 13 A. The meeting was, I believe, on November 14 5th. 15 Q. And what did you do after that meeting? 16 A. Can you elaborate? 17 Q. In reference to this matter, what did you 18 do after that meeting? 19 A. We closed the meeting. Um, all 20 participants left my office. I had asked 21 Mrs. Lepri to take notes on our conversation during 22 the meeting. She gave me the notes. I closed my 23 office door and then proceeded to write up the 24 proceedings of the meeting, I would say, probably 73 1 within minutes. It's possible I went to the 2 bathroom. I try to get those letters done immediately 3 following the meeting so there is no delay in my 4 getting the letter out. 5 Q. So the meeting was on November 5th, right? 6 A. Um-hum. 7 Q. And the document that's now in evidence as 8 District 2, am I right about that? 9 MR. NORTH: Yes. 10 Q. Is dated November 16th, 2009? 11 A. Um-hum. 12 Q. Is that right? 13 A. I believe so, yes. 14 Q. And yet you've testified you wrote it on 15 November 5th, is that right? 16 A. Correct. That afternoon. 17 Q. Okay. So what did you do between November 18 5th and November 16th in reference to this matter? 19 A. I had a conversation with Mrs. Norton, 20 the superintendent. 21 Q. So you had a conversation with 22 Superintendent Norton before you issued this 23 letter? 24 A. I believe so. 74 1 Q. Okay. I must have misunderstood your prior 2 testimony. Your conversations with her were before 3 you wrote -- before you finalized and signed this 4 letter, is that right? 5 A. I believe so, yes. 6 Q. Okay. You say you wrote it on November 7 5th. Did you make changes to it at anytime before you 8 finalized it, dated it and signed the document dated 9 November 16th? 10 A. It is possible. To go back and proofread 11 it, make grammatical changes, corrections. 12 Q. Did you make any changes based on your 13 conversations with the superintendent about this 14 matter? 15 A. I don't believe so, no. 16 Q. Did you keep notes of the meeting of 17 November 5th, 2009 yourself? 18 A. No, I didn't. Mrs. Lepri was taking 19 notes. And then -- those are the notes that I 20 referenced when I wrote the letter. 21 Q. And did you provide Ms. Swenson with a 22 copy of those notes? 23 A. I don't believe so. 24 Q. Are you aware of anybody providing 75 1 Ms. Swenson with a copy of those notes? 2 A. No. 3 Q. And what did you do with those notes? 4 A. They were in a folder in my office. And I 5 know at one point I believe I gave a copy to Attorney 6 North. 7 Q. And the notes purport to be an accurate 8 summary or a contemporaneous record of what was said 9 during the November 5th meeting in your office? 10 A. There was a record of actual quotes and 11 there was reference by initials. So if it was myself 12 speaking, it would be "MH said" and so forth. "AS," 13 Ann Marie Swenson, and so forth. Mr. Stock, I 14 believe made one, stated a question, so it was "DS." 15 It was all labeled. 16 Q. And did you have a file specifically, a 17 file folder on this matter, in other words, the matter 18 of Monica Harper and Ann Marie Swenson, of October 19 29, 2009? 20 A. I did maintain a folder of that, yes. 21 Q. Do you still have it? 22 A. Yes, I do. I don't have it with me today. 23 It's locked in my office, but I do have that folder. 24 Q. What else is in it? 76 1 A. I believe there is some other information 2 regarding other incidents that I was involved with 3 with Ann Marie. 4 Q. So the folder isn't related exclusively to 5 the events of October 29th, 2009, is that right? 6 A. I would say no, it probably contains other 7 information. 8 Q. It's a folder that relates to Ms. Swenson 9 in general. And do you make copies of the documents 10 and put them in her personnel record? 11 A. Or if they're a copy of a letter such as 12 that I wrote which, it said "CC, personnel file" those 13 are the ones that you maintain in the personnel 14 record. 15 Q. Have you told, have you ever told 16 Ms. Swenson that you maintain a file on her? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Are you aware that she has asked to see her 19 personnel file on more than one occasion? 20 A. I'm not aware of that. She can make that 21 request, I believe, through the personnel office. 22 Q. When was your meeting with the 23 superintendent following your November 5th, 2009 24 meeting? 77 1 A. I don't recall the exact date, but it was 2 between the time of the meeting and the time of the 3 letter being issued. 4 Q. Was it just you and the superintendent at 5 this meeting? 6 A. I believe so, yes. 7 Q. Did you take notes? 8 A. I don't recall. I don't think so. 9 Q. What did you say at the meeting? 10 A. I explained the situation, what had 11 happened, to the best of my knowledge, based on the 12 conversation that I had with Ms. Swenson in the 13 meeting and also based on the events that were 14 recorded by Ms. Harper, or Ms. Harper, now she's 15 Mrs. Harper. And I believe we talked about the 16 severity of it, the issue of mistrust. And at that 17 point it was decided Ms. Norton would handle the 18 case from there. 19 Q. So on some unknown, unspecified date 20 between November 5th, 2009 and November 16th, 2009, in 21 a meeting with the superintendent it was determined 22 that the superintendent would handle the matter from 23 there, wherever "there" is, is that right? 24 A. Yes. 78 1 Q. And what does "handle" mean? 2 A. That if there was to be any disciplinary 3 action, meetings after that, I know that at some point 4 Attorney North was notified. So if there was going 5 to be legal counsel, um, involvement, things like 6 that, that it would be handled at the superintendent's 7 level. 8 Q. And what contact did you have with 9 Ms. Swenson after November 5th, or rather after 10 conveying the November 16th, 2009 letter to her? 11 A. I believe the letter was hand delivered by 12 my secretary to her. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Can you repeat that? 15 Q. Did you have any other contact with 16 Ms. Swenson concerning this matter after the November 17 5th meeting, any personal contact? 18 A. Well, I see her a couple times a week, but 19 nothing like discussion. 20 Q. Concerning this matter. 21 A. I've seen her in the hallways. I've seen 22 her in the library. 23 Q. No. My question was, did you have any 24 contact, interaction with Ms. Swenson? 79 1 A. Regarding this? 2 Q. Concerning the October 29th matter after 3 November 5th. 4 A. I don't believe so. 5 Q. Okay. It's true, isn't it, that in your 6 letter of November 16th, you instruct Ms. Swenson not 7 to speak to Ms. Harper, now Ms. Harper, about the 8 situation until after, quote, "I have completed my 9 investigation and interviews," is that right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. You recall writing that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And so at the time that you signed this 14 letter dated November 16th, 2009, was your 15 investigation ongoing or was it complete? 16 A. Well, I still had information from, after 17 that meeting on the 5th that I wanted to follow up. I 18 wanted to talk to the student, the student in 19 question, Karen. I also wanted to talk to 20 Ms. Harper. 21 Q. My question was whether or not you, at the 22 time that you signed this document which is dated 23 November 16, 2009, you had not yet completed your 24 investigation and interviews? Yes or no. 80 1 MR. NORTH: I'm going to object to that 2 as a yes or no question. 3 Q. Okay. Let me ask you again. Let me try 4 this one more time. Okay? 5 On November 16, 2009, did you sign this letter? 6 A. Yes, I did. 7 Q. Okay. On November 16th, 2009, had you 8 completed your investigation and interviews in this 9 matter? 10 A. I believe so, yes. 11 Q. Okay. So you signed the letter in which 12 you've instructed Ms. Swenson not to speak to 13 Ms. Harper about the situation "until after I have 14 completed my investigation and interviews," is that 15 right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And you had, at the time that you signed 18 this letter, completed your investigation and 19 interviews, isn't that right? Yes or no. 20 A. Well -- 21 Q. Yes? 22 A. I'm a little confused on how you're asking 23 the question, but I will have to say yes, I guess. 24 Q. Okay. In fact, when you met with the 81 1 superintendent on some unspecified date between 2 November 5th, 2009 and November 16th, 2009, you had 3 completed your interviews and investigation, isn't 4 that right? 5 A. I believe so. 6 Q. So sometime before you signed this letter, 7 your interview -- your investigation and interviews 8 were complete? 9 10 A. Yes. Q. Okay. And did you at any point, either 11 orally or in writing, have further contact with 12 Ms. Swenson concerning the events of October 29, 2005 13 -- 2009? October 29, 2009. Sorry. Lots of dates 14 flying around here. Do you need me to repeat it? 15 A. Well, you just said November 16th and the 16 29th of October. 17 Q. I'm sorry. My question was, did you have 18 any contact with Ms. Swenson at any point after you 19 wrote this letter and signed it on November 16th, 20 2009? 21 A. I would say no, in regards to that matter. 22 Q. Right. Okay. And so you never got in 23 touch with her and said, "My investigation and 24 interviews are complete," did you? 82 1 A. I don't believe so. 2 Q. And you never said, "I've handed the matter 3 over to the superintendent"? 4 A. No, I did not say that, no. 5 Q. But you did get the follow-up document that 6 Ms. Swenson submitted to you dated November 24, 2009, 7 right? It's in evidence as District 3? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. So what did your investigation 10 entail, who did you interview? 11 A. I talked to Karen, who was the 12 student involved. 13 Q. When did you do that? 14 A. Following our meeting on the 5th. And I 15 believe it was the next morning, probably November 6th 16 or so. I don't recall the exact date, but it was 17 within a day or so of the meeting I had with 18 Ms. Swenson. 19 Q. And who else did you talk to? 20 A. I talked to Monica again in regards to the 21 matter. 22 Q. You had already talked to her regarding 23 this matter before? 24 A. I talked to her once before on the, it 83 1 happened on the 29th. I believe I talked to her 2 either on the 30th or -- I remember it was like a 7:30 3 meeting either the 30th or the 31st. It was within a 4 day or so of her giving the letter to Shirley, 5 Mrs. Lepri. 6 Q. 7:30 a.m.? 7 A. Yes. 7:30 in the morning. She came down 8 to my office and said, "Do you have a few minutes to 9 speak?" I said "yes." She said, "This is in regards 10 to a matter that I've written a letter to 11 Mrs. Lepri" and she actually had the letter, but I 12 had already received a copy of it. 13 Q. So she reached out to you. You didn't ask 14 her to come to your office? 15 A. Correct. I intended to speak to her 16 because I had possession of the letter from 17 Mrs. Lepri, but she seemed very upset about it and 18 had sought me out that morning. 19 Q. Who is her mentor? 20 A. I believe it was Joyce Smith. Mrs. Smith 21 is a math teacher at Attleboro. I believe it was 22 Mrs. Smith. 23 Q. So what did Ms. Harper say to you during 24 this 7:30 a.m. meeting? 84 1 A. She basically recapped what she had written 2 and said that she was, she felt disrespected by 3 Ms. Swenson, by her actions of saying "I'll lie," 4 felt it was unprofessional. She was concerned about 5 her future relations with Ms. Swenson and the 6 distrust. She was a relatively new teacher at Attleboro 7 so she was worried about that, her, Ms. Swenson being 8 a veteran and Monica being a newer teacher. She also 9 had concerns of Karen, the student in 10 question, who was a special ed student and her 11 progress in the class or -- just her making progress 12 in the class, basically. 13 Q. So concerns about Karen making progress in 14 the class, did that part of the discussion involve 15 Ms. Swenson? 16 A. No, I don't believe so. 17 Q. Ms. Swenson doesn't have any 18 responsibility for whether or not Karen is making 19 progress in Ms. Harper' class, does she? 20 A. No, unless she was asked to assist in some 21 way. 22 Q. And are you aware of any such request for 23 assistance? 24 A. No, not at all. I was just going to give 85 1 you a recap of what happened. 2 Q. No. I just wanted -- and I appreciate 3 that. I just wanted clarification to make sure that 4 that part of the conversation didn't relate to 5 Ms. Swenson in some way that I was unaware of. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. So she -- what did you say during that 8 meeting, that 7:30 a.m. meeting? 9 A. I just asked, I recall asking her a few 10 questions about why she felt -- what was her feeling 11 at the time about the whole situation, how could it 12 have been handled differently. And was this a normal 13 situation where she would be having students at some 14 point report to the library to have assistance. And 15 she did recall that Karen had gone to the library 16 before to receive assistance from Mrs. Thomas, who 17 is a special ed teacher, who is a liaison for the 18 science department. She is a consultant. They have 19 one special ed teacher for multiple science teachers. 20 Q. Had you read the letter before she appeared 21 in your office at 7:30 in the morning? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. So you were aware of the allegations before 24 she sat down in your office for the first time, is 86 1 that right? 2 A. Yes, I had read through the letter and 3 intended to speak with her, but she came to my office 4 prior to me getting to her. 5 Q. And your recollection is that you asked her 6 what her feelings were and how it could be handled 7 differently? 8 A. I did have a conversation with her about 9 that. 10 Q. Did you have conversation with her about 11 anything else, have any other questions for her? 12 A. I don't believe so. 13 Q. Who else did you talk to? 14 A. I talked to Karen. I talked to Monica. 15 Q. Wait. Okay. Did you say "after Karen, I 16 talked to Monica"? 17 A. No. I said "I talked to Karen. I talked 18 to Monica." Karen, I talked to after the meeting 19 with Ann Marie. That meeting with Karen, the 20 student, was after I talked to Ann Marie. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Because she wasn't in school. And there 23 was a number of days where -- she was not in school on 24 a number of days. 87 1 Q. So if I understand the sequence correctly, 2 you got the letter written by Ms. Harper, now Harper, 3 from Ms. Lepri. 4 A. Yup. 5 Q. You had a meeting, not by your own 6 initiative, but by Ms. Harper, at 7:30 in the 7 morning on either the 30th or 31st of October, is that 8 right? 9 10 A. Yup. Q. And then you had a meeting with my client, 11 Ms. Swenson, who wasn't my client yet, on November 12 5th, 2009, is that right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And then after the meeting of November 5th, 15 2009 with my client, you wrote up your letter, which 16 is dated November 16th and then sat down again with 17 Ms. Harper or what was the sequence? Was it Karen 18 and then your second meeting with Ms. Harper or was 19 it Ms. Harper and then Karen? 20 A. It was Ms. Harper, the meeting with Ann 21 Marie. I spoke to the student, Karen. And my 22 follow-up meeting with Monica was that the situation 23 is being handled administratively and that I tried to 24 reassure her at the time that it was no reflection -88 1 because she was nervous about, as I said, the future 2 relationship with Ann Marie and whether it was going 3 to be, I don't believe she said retaliation, but she 4 was nervous about her status as a teacher with the 5 school, veteran teacher, new teacher to the district, 6 if there was going to be a future tension because she 7 knew she would have to deal with the librarian at some 8 point as a teacher in the building. 9 Q. So your meeting with Ms. -- your second 10 meeting with Ms. Harper about this really wasn't about 11 the incident so much as telling her how it was going 12 to be handled? 13 A. Correct. I said, "The administrators will 14 handle this. I don't want you to feel that, you know, 15 as a new teacher you don't need to be nervous about 16 being in the building or having future dealings with 17 the librarian," because she was nervous about it. 18 Q. So you reassured her that she didn't need 19 to be nervous? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Is that right? 22 A. Yes, that's a good summary. 23 Q. And you didn't discuss the substance of her 24 allegations in any way, is that right? 89 1 A. No. And I did not talk about the meeting 2 with Ann Marie. 3 Q. Okay. So you didn't go back to her with 4 questions that had arisen in your mind after talking 5 with Ann Marie about this matter? 6 A. No, we had no further questions. It was, 7 in a sense, kind of going full circle and just 8 wrapping it up with her saying that at this point it 9 would be handled by the administration. 10 Q. Did Ms. Harper provide you with any further 11 written statements concerning the events of October 12 29th, 2009 beyond the letter? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did the student provide you with a written 15 statement? 16 A. No. 17 Q. When was your meeting with the student? 18 A. I believe it was the day after our meeting 19 on November 5th. So it was probably November 6th. 20 Q. When this matter was handed to you, did you 21 develop a plan for how to proceed with an 22 investigation before you proceeded with the 23 investigation? 24 A. Well, did I develop a formal plan or -90 1 Q. Any kind of plan. 2 A. I certainly did. I don't believe I wrote 3 it down, but I had a process that I was going to take 4 steps in following through. 5 Q. And what was the process? 6 A. The process was to follow up on the letter 7 and have a meeting with Ms. Harper, which happened 8 before I had planned it or scheduled it. To have a 9 conversation with Ms. Swenson, ask some questions of 10 her in the matter. And then to talk to other 11 witnesses, certainly the student. And then from that 12 point, to have some discussion with my 13 superintendent. And then if there was grounds to go 14 forward with some kind of consequence, then that 15 consequence would be issued. 16 Q. And so other than Ms. Harper, 17 Ms. Swenson and the student, who else did you 18 interview? 19 A. Interview? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. I don't believe I did anyone else. 22 Q. You didn't interview Ms. Thomas? 23 A. I had no conversation with Ms. Thomas 24 about this matter. 91 1 Q. You didn't interview Ms. Lanier? 2 A. No, I did not. 3 Q. Do I understand you correctly that you 4 retained whatever material you had compiled in the 5 context of your investigation? 6 A. Some handwritten notes and things like 7 that, yes. 8 Q. You didn't give them to the superintendent? 9 A. I believe the only time I gave copies of 10 that was after Attorney North had requested papers 11 and things like that, whatever was related. 12 Q. And what were there for papers? 13 A. There was handwritten notes from 14 Mrs. Lepri on our meeting on November 5th, there 15 were handwritten notes that I took when talking to 16 Monica, Ms. Harper. 17 Q. You mean on October 30th or 31st? 18 A. That morning, yes. Then there were 19 handwritten notes that I took when I talked to the 20 student, Karen. 21 Q. Anything else? 22 A. I don't believe so. 23 Q. And when you sat down with the 24 superintendent, you didn't provide her with any 92 1 written report of any kind on this matter? 2 A. No. It was conversation. We meet on a 3 regular basis to discuss school matters all the time. 4 So no. 5 Q. And did the superintendent indicate to you 6 any plans she had once the matter was in her, on her 7 desk, so to speak? 8 A. I don't believe so. Any, like, future 9 action to be taken, things like that? 10 Q. Right. 11 A. She did not indicate that to me. 12 Q. And you took no further action upon 13 receiving Ms. Swenson's November 24th, 2004 letter, 14 is that right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. You didn't talk to Donna Thomas. We're 17 clear about that, right? 18 A. I don't believe I ever had a conversation 19 with her, no, not in regards to this matter. I talk 20 to Donna all the time, but not in regards to this 21 matter. 22 Q. Okay. 93 3 MS. MAHONEY: I'm all set. I don't have any further 5 questions. 6 MR. ARBITRATOR: Any redirect, Attorney 7 North? 8 MR. NORTH: Yes. 9 10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. NORTH: 11 Q. Going back to the notice of the November 12 5th meeting. 13 A. The one that I wrote? 14 Q. No. The meeting that you had on November 15 5th. 16 A. Um-hum. 17 Q. Prior to that meeting, did anyone ask you 18 what the meeting was going to be about? 19 A. I don't believe so, no. You mean like 20 Shirley or things